John Bransford Transcript 2 October 2006
From SimTeach
Resources
Presentation overview: http://life-slc.org/?p=382
Streaming video used in presentation: http://life-slc.org/mazepilotdemo3.mov
Jeff McNeill's photos and transcript - Powerpoint - 2.6Mb | PDF - 900k
About the LIFE Science of Learning Center's island in SL: http://life-slc.org/?p=139
Presenter's note
This is a slightly edited version of the presentation I gave on Second LIFE on Oct 2, 2006. Hopefully these edits will make points a bit clearer. During questions, I have tried to align questions to my answers. Sometimes the alignment wasn't quite right. I also answer a few questions that were somehow missed in the flow of things.
Thanks again to all who attended. Sorry about my avatar problems---something happened to it that I still don't quite understand (probably some keys I accidentally hit). And sometimes the "sound" did not get transmitted far enough.
The questions from the audience were fabulous and will prompt lots of continued thinking on my part.
Thanks again,
John Bransford
Transcript
Note: Professor Bransford's avatar name "Jon Augustus" has been edited for clarity.
Jeremy Kemp: everyone want to shout out - which university or school are you affiliated with?
Jeremy Kemp: San Jose State University - Simteach.com
Bill Friis: Montana State University
hondomac Dalgleish: Nova Scotia Community College halifax NS
Virtual Bacon: Devry
Star Eliot: university of wisconsin-madison
Kale Somme: Kirkwood Community College
Moon Eggplant: Centre for Educational Technology and Interoperability standards (UNIVERSITY OF Bolton )UK
Lou Liebknecht: University of South Florida - Sarasota
Riki Rinkitink: University of Cental Florida
Raven Tsuki: George Washington University
Arrow Saarinen: UCLA
Buddy Sprocket: university of paisley (UK)
CliffordB Hightower: Apollo Group
Star Eliot: /shout uw!!
Mary Sol: USF
StevieRay Vaughan: Center for Educational Development (Italy)
Pathfinder Linden: howdy folks
Pen Dot: UW
Jeremy Kemp: we are shouting out with our universities and school affiliations...
Yeahtse Go: university medical center Groningen
Virtual Bacon: Devry GSP
Flameheart Sol: Jon: Will the transcript of this meeting be available?
Zo Go: University of Washington
Lou Liebknecht: University of South Florida
Waffle Projects: SRI International
Jeremy Kemp: This event is for Dr. John Bransford from UW talk about his experience with research in Second Life
SueMaeLA Escape: Will there be audio?
Rik Riel: yes
Flameheart Sol: ICOLORADO TECHNICALUNIVERSITY
SueMaeLA Escape: Otis College of Art and Design
Drue Aridian: VIDEO screens will appear later when needed in the presentation
Kate Spatula: University of Washington - Seattle
Mary Sol: Its South Florida
Enjay Ellison: Emily Carr Institute of Arat and Design
SueMaeLA Escape: How do I get the audio controls?
Thinkerer Melville: Texas Chtistian Univ (retired)
Jeremy Kemp: Hello everyone - we are starting, please take a seat and we'll get going!: -)
Pathfinder Linden: welcome!
Jeremy Kemp: The presentation will consist of a short video and chat with Dr. Bransford - no voice
Jeremy Kemp: The transcript of this presentation will be published online
Jeremy Kemp: The presentation will consist of a short video and chat with Dr. Bransford - no voice. The transcript of this presentation will be published online. Contributors to this effort include Mari Asturais, Chief architect and with Teen Educators
Jeremy Kemp: Text100 PR firm provided publicity
Jeremy Kemp: SimTeach.com provided coordination and rented these sims.
Jeremy Kemp: So Dr. Bransford and his graduate students will take it away....
John Bransford: Hello everyone. This is amazing. I want to start with a few words of thanks. But please excuse typos. I'm trying to type and chew gum.
John Bransford: First, thank to those who invited me, to Jeremy Kemp, and to all of you for showing up
John Bransford: Second, thanks to Linden Lab for its amazing work on Second Life, and for helping set up this space
Donnagh McDonnagh: /chew
John Bransford: Third, thanks to several at UW--especially Drue Gawel, Baba Kofi Weusijana, Hank Clark, Daryl Lawton, Vanessa Svihla. You'll meet some of their avatars later on.
John Bransford: Fourth, thanks to NSF for support for learning researchers everywhere, including our LIFE center.
John Bransford: Now let me try an overview
John Bransford: People have asked if multi user virtual environments (MUVES) like Second Life (SL) can support "rigorous learning". Given the right kinds of designs, the answer is "yes".
John Bransford: But the yes answer require "effective designs"
John Bransford: I'm going to focus on very simple example of a design and then turn to the real message; namely, that environments like SL provide a way for all of us to learn from one another by collaborating in new ways that, ultimately, can restructure the nature of' educational possibilities.
John Bransford: I'll start with an example of using SL for learning and then come back to the collaborative theme.
John Bransford: The example I'll use is an example of what we call stone age design. It's a very simple way to combine SL experiences with real life.
John Bransford: We've played with this example a bit and found that people quickly think of ways to expand on the ideas and make them better. That's our goal. Even stone age designs can function as structures for further innovation. Hopefully this will become clearer as we proceed
John Bransford: The design we'll explore involves a simple set of 8 rooms that avatars try to navigate.
John Bransford: In the example we show, three Avatars function as a team that wants to get through he rooms as quickly as possible. The first Avatar explores the rooms and then has 30 seconds to explain to the next team member some key points for getting through the rooms faster
John Bransford: The second avatar then navigates and has 30 seconds to give advice to a 3rd avatar
John Bransford: As a team the avatars want to go fast--to be Stanford
John Bransford: Below me you see the rooms we built. Please don't do it now, but you can go through the rooms later.
John Bransford: In order to see the rooms better, we decided to make a video of our avatars.
John Bransford: Please don't do it now, but in a moment I'll ask you to hit your movie control button----- at the right bottom of your screen. It assumes you have QuickTime-- hope you do
John Bransford: The movie takes 5 minutes. After watching the avatars, we'll return to see ways to make this educationally relevant.
John Bransford: Ok, please hit the video controller NOW.
- http://www.life-slc.org/mazepilotdemo3.mov <-- Click here to view the video from the presentation
Kate Spatula: sorry to interrupt, but it was said earlier that the video was also online somewhere?
Easton Turner: Nicely done. What age group is the maze aimed at?
John Bransford: I hope you could see the video. Now let me say something about how this experience can be used for further learning---in our case concepts about learning
John Bransford: If you didn't see all the video, you can explore the maze later
totally Vavoom: where is the maze?
Rik Riel: below us
totally Vavoom: oh those rooms!
totally Vavoom: cool!
John Bransford: The learning we seek comes from combining the SL experience with discussions following the demo---discussions that can be in real life if desired
John Bransford: One questions we ask people is: Has the demo allowed you to learn to get through the rooms?
John Bransford: Most say yes
John Bransford: Some say--it showed ONE way. Maybe there are others that are even faster.
John Bransford: We've seen statements like this often yield comments like "wow, I didn't think of that"
John Bransford: Discussion can explore how people as a group--like our 3 avatars--frequently come to believe in a way of doing something
John Bransford: And they communicate that to others
John Bransford: Others can learn "their way" with little understanding of why it works or whether there are other possibilities
John Bransford: Discussions can then explore how the efficiency orientation (be fast) we gave the Avatars affected what they learned and told others
John Bransford: Attempts to be efficient affect lots of what we do.
John Bransford: So what is there besides efficiency?
John Bransford: One answer is inquiry with a goal toward innovation
John Bransford: Inquiry can be much slower in the short run be more efficient in the long run
John Bransford: The history of science provides a good example of how inquiry has changed peoples self-generated stories about how the world works and why
John Bransford: You could not see it well in the movie, but if you explore the rooms later you start to see some charts and graphs that help you find much faster sways to get through the rooms
John Bransford: They can also help you begin to understand why things work as they do
John Bransford: With this understanding you'll be more efficient and flexible.
John Bransford: For example, people can learn that the door often opens with a direct push--and they an learn why and when.
John Bransford: You can probably figure this out, especially with a hint like how temperature might affect the swelling of wood doors
John Bransford: There are other variables that affect things like shock
Ruben Faust: greetings from another row - how do I hear the speaker?
John Bransford: Now---what seems to be happening in this kind of instruction?
John Bransford: We view this as instruction combining learning by experience with learning by description
John Bransford: Most of school is learning by description
John Bransford: We hear lectures, read books, etc.
John Bransford: This works will provided that we have enough previous experience to elaborate on the nuances of what is said or read
John Bransford: Often, novices do not have sufficiently deep prior experiences. Starting with something like our 8 rooms lets everyone experience something that creates what has been called "a time for telling" (Schwartz & Bransford, 1998. Cognition and Instruction).
John Bransford: Our "telling" occurs through discussions, readings, etc--often in real life.
John Bransford: For example, students can be helped to realize the importance of inquiry and innovation and the fact that it can bee squelched by too much emphasis on efficiency
John Bransford: After a brief introduciton of inquiry (with no hints at first)
John Bransford: People can be allowed to explore the mazes again, or watch someone else do this if there is limited bandwidth or time.
John Bransford: They experience the difference between doing which occured initially, and doing with understanding. Once they understand, they can then be much more flexible in traversing additional rooms --- for example that are placed in a new randon order where the room number is removed.
John Bransford: We believe that it is the combination of experience and a description that helps learning
John Bransford: Simply doing the mazes will not necessarily help students discover things about efficiency, inquiry, transfer, understanding
John Bransford: Similarly, simply being told about these concepts should not be nearly as powerful as having info presented in a just in time fashion when it impacts their actions in SL. We are designing to test this idea.
John Bransford: There are many others things to which one can connect these simply rooms---including many of the classic experiments in psychology
John Bransford: Again, we are preparing studies to study the value of SL experiences as a foundation for deeper learning
John Bransford: Now lets come back to the idea of MUVES as a space for collective inquiry and action
John Bransford: IF you look at our rooms and feel "I can do better"---we say fantastic. That's why we need collaborations
John Bransford: We've seen this in our LIFE Center
John Bransford: Senior researchers have been amazed at the creativity of the students.\
John Bransford: We know this kind of creativity exists in this audience, and across the world
Danger Burrito: (what's MUVES?)
Monica Poppy: MUVE = multi-user virtual environment
John Bransford: However, finding how to focus this creativity is a real challenge
John Bransford: Think of the airline industry.
Monica Poppy: plural MUVE = MUVEs
John Bransford: In 100 years, they have gone from fragile planes to amazing jetliners.
Danger Burrito: thanks
John Bransford: Education does not have this kind of cumulativity.
John Bransford: Imagine a SL island where we collaborate to create and test environments to enhance learning
John Bransford: A simple starting example could be our simple stone age maze
John Bransford: Anyone could use it. Make it better, do studies with it and report them. Several of our LIFE students have already decided to use the maze to test how peole have or have not worked in teams will collaborate if they go in pairs or larger groups.
John Bransford: Other things could be more fun.
John Bransford: Imagine a SL moon environment where people could help students learn things like the need for atmosphere for sound ways to carry
John Bransford: or students might try to create a sustainable ecosystem for themselves for a year on the moon.
Milosun Czervik: that's where our buddy Troy comes in.
John Bransford: We don't have start with a total adventures - we can begin with small pieces.
John Bransford: The instruction can initially be blended----part SL, part real life, then return to SL
Danger Burrito: I found it useful to click on chat history.
John Bransford: Eventually we might be able to create a new kind of journal where different people could actually get academic credit for their work in SL.
John Bransford: Some credit could be for design, some for adding learning, some for improvements to others work, etc.
John Bransford: The overall goal is to create a new kind of space that allows for cumulativity over time--and allows academic "credit" as well --- credit for different people doing different parts of collaborative tasks.
John Bransford: I want to get to discussion so let me summaraize
John Bransford: Thanks again for coming, and thanks to Second LIFE for its Stellar work---and to all at UW who helped
John Bransford: The more we in LIFE use second LIFE, the more impressed we become
Rubaiyat Shatner: Are there going to be questions?
John Bransford: We think it is ok to start stone age
John Bransford: we can build fast, test, redesign, etc.
John Bransford: much of the work can be done in real life and anchored in SL
John Bransford: The big thing I see is the creativity out there and how much we could do together
Drue Aridian: John will be taking questions in a little bit
John Bransford: WE need to have a focused way to build on one another's work however
John Bransford: All of us in LIFE are far from having a clear idea of exactly how to establish this kind of innovation environment
John Bransford: But we are convinced that second life offers a great possibility for doing this
John Bransford: Ultimately, we could imagine a series of adventures for students that could become a new way to create curricula.
Jeremy Kemp: You've written a lot lately about adaptive expertise - how could you study that in this environment?
John Bransford: It is one of the most powerful ways we know that might radically change the nature of education.
John Bransford: I'm sure each of you have many more ideas. So sharing them will be great
John Bransford: Thanks again for your patience. I hope this was at least a bit helpful, and I look forward to questions.
John Bransford: Best to all
Rubaiyat Shatner: how could the task be structured to promote inquiry / innovation over efficiency?
Sean Doughboy: /clap
John Bransford: That is a great question. We could ask people to work for, say, an hour, in groups, to come up with the best way to get through the maze
John Bransford: Different groups would undoubtedly discover different things about the maze--and could then compare
Kate Spatula: one thing that could be done would be to randomly reorder the rooms each time... forces the need to understand the nature of the rooms instead of memorizing the right sequence
John Bransford: Yes variabililty often forces understanding.
Rik Riel: Cisco recently published a meta report indicating that the benefits of virtual learning is only marginally better than RW learning. Are we perhaps being over optimistic the potential for this technology?
Milosun Czervik: great suggestion, Kate.
Milosun Czervik: comparison studies... GRRR
Drue Aridian: Next Question?
Donnagh McDonnagh: Dr. Bransford, how do we define experience different from description? Is all language use description?
Pebbles Hannya: Aren't there already lots of opportunities in the RL, SL, and on the Web for experiential learning? It seems to me the obstacle is systems that are very control oriented (grading, tenure, course structure, etc.).
John Bransford: I think we have only really begun to explore the possibilities
John Bransford: We need to work together to design powerful studies to show the effects, SL environments can provide experiences that we can't get or afford in the real world
John Bransford: A paper by Dan Schwartz, me and David Sears explores some of these ideas---we'll send around the reference.
- Schwartz, D. L., Bransford, J. D., & Sears, D. (2005). Efficiency and innovation in transfer. In J. Mestre (Ed.), "Transfer of learning from a modern multidisciplinary perspective" (pp. 1-51). Greenwich, CT: Information Age Publishing.
Kate Spatula: so, to clarify, you're using the term 'cumulative' to describe more than just the basic building off of previous research. You're looking more at a cooperative effort than the competitive first to publish paradigm that drives most research today?
John Bransford: Wonderfully stated. Yes, we need to change what counts as "contributions to the field".
John Bransford: If everyone always tries to be first, it forces everyone to go inn different directions
John Bransford: If we could create an environment (a new kind of journal for example) that celebrates truly collaborative contributions we could do what aviation is doing.
Drue Aridian: The next question will be hondomac Dalgleish: What did you have in mind when you mentioned moving beyond the Stone Age maze demonstrations?
John Bransford: Our maze is very simple but has turned out to be very useful
John Bransford: But having something with more face validity would be better----like being on the moon and having to sustain oneself for a year. We need to pair content experts, virtual designers and learning scientists in order to make great things happen.
Buddy Sprocket: I really liked the central example as a demonstration for a need exploration and discussion... but regarding the credit sharing and building on others work, do you see massively multi-author collaborative (as happens in modern physics research)
John Bransford: In many areas there is indeed multi- author sharing of credits
John Bransford: A good approach is truly distributed expertise teams.
John Bransford: Some people are great designers but not leaving researchers----and vice versa. Others are great content experts.
John Bransford: having people with distinctly different roles is one way to have individual PLUS shared credit for things.
Moon Eggplant: I'm struggling a little to think of the advantages over "clan" work in other MMORPG where the collaboration and exploration, although informal is more sophisticated read bronze age over stone
John Bransford: The trick for the clan work is probably the degree of reflection on the experience
Sycamore Shablin: Very true
John Bransford: As I mentioned about our maze, simply going through it will miss lots of chances to make connections to other concepts and areas
John Bransford: I suspect the same is true of clan work
Sycamore Shablin: But that's about how the wider context is structured
John Bransford: Yes, I agree. A great study would be to let people learn informally-- which is often implicit learning--and then either do or do not add the formal structure and broaden content.
John Bransford: My guess is that the right combinations of implicit and explicit play out the best-- especially for transfer
John Bransford: Again, virtual environments have lots and lots of potential, but not necessarily as they have been use in the past. We can do even better as a community
Milosun Czervik: Dr. B - what is the thing you've found that surprises you most about SL?
John Bransford: It's hard to type (smile)
John Bransford: Seriously, the amazing amount of collaborative creativity
John Bransford: There are many ways to use it. I'm just learning myself
Coreshadow Bordiga: Could you clarify what kind of experiences you meant that SL could provide in experimental and experience learning that we couldn't get or afford in RL?
John Bransford: Even letting people go through simple problem solving rooms is tough in real life---they are expensive to build
John Bransford: Creating an imaginary moonscape with all its real features is also something that RL can do but most of us cannot experience in real life
John Bransford: I hope this helps some
Sycamore Shablin: I can see how SL could be useful as a teaching aid for, i.e. basic science - but what about more abstract subjects, such as literary studies? Is there any use for SL/other virtual environments there?
John Bransford: I'd have to think more of literary studies but I can imagine lots of ways
John Bransford: Imagine people reading Plato's allgory of the cave and then having people see if avatars are recreating it correctly---the students could create a SL reenactment of the text.
Rinoa Mayfair: Similar to Sycamore Shablin's question, do you think that SL might be useful in anthropological study, beyond just information gathering?
John Bransford: This is where we need collaboration between content experts and learning scientist, etc.
John Bransford: I think one could do a virtual visit to someplace that is like our simple maze -- but where assumptions about what people mean and believes are easy to misunderstand
John Bransford: Students could experience the differences between their off the cuff interpretations (based on their culture) and in depth inquiry. These kinds of "ahas" are useful for learning.
Buddy Sprocket: I see that there already is an island called Innovation Island.... is that yours? (No - not John's)
John Bransford: Oops. Thanks
Rinoa Mayfair: Also, do you see SL as being used seriously as an online course delivery system, such as is being done now with WebCT, by state universities or primarily as only a supplement to classroom or WebCT?
John Bransford: It depends on how it is used
John Bransford: Some people use Second Life as a classroom for lecture---that clearly can be useful
Moon Eggplant: didn't web ct patent learning recently
John Bransford: However, I think it's better if we can teach interactively as well.
John Bransford: Currently, it can be tough to get everyone online in Second Life --even at UW with its great Internet 2
John Bransford: Students need high end computers
John Bransford: Soon that will all be solved
John Bransford: In the meantime, part of my goal was to lnote that there are simple ways to use SL (even as a movie maker) that can greatly enhance the nature of interactive instruction can do.
Zo Go: I imagine people might be able to think of lots of potential SL learning scenarios, without necessarily having the time or commitment to build them. Do you envision a place where the community could share kernel idea, and if so how?
John Bransford: This is why we need a mechanism to reward distributed expertise. If we could help teams form--some builders, some educators, some researchers---and have them all get credits for there particular work--it would be great
Drue Aridian: Copies of the presentation and the video shown will be available here: http: //life-slc.org/?p=382
John Bransford: Wonderful questions. Thanks so much!
Moon Eggplant: Thank you
Buddy Sprocket: thank you!
Tojos Squeegee: Thanks
Funimal Oxide: Where is the presentation available again?
Sycamore Shablin: /applaud
Jeremy Kemp: Dr. Bransford - Thanks so much for speaking to our "Teacher's Lounge" - These sims will be available for another day or so
Pathfinder Linden: this was a wonderful discussion and presentation...thanks so much
Kofi Unknown: Please everyone, try out the rooms. It is best if you do it one at a time. Thanks!
Enjay Ellison: thank you!
